D. I. VINITSKY

Our sobkor in Egypt

Keywords: Egypt, revolutions, reforms, cooperation, foreign policy, Russia

The revolutionary events of the past four years have shaken the long-standing foundations of Egypt and radically changed not only the political palette of the Pyramid Country, but also the very perception of the Egyptians of their position, status, their attitude towards external and internal friends and enemies. Revolutions, as we know, destroy, and after them begins a long, complex, sometimes painful period of perestroika, reform, comprehension of new goals and development of ways to achieve them.

Mohammed Anwar Ahmed Ismat Sadat, the nephew of the world-famous Egyptian president, spoke about the difficult period that the Arab Republic of Egypt (ARE) is currently experiencing in an interview with our correspondent in Egypt.

Question: You are a well-known public and political figure in Egypt. What was the reason for the creation of the Reform and Development Party (PRP)? Who are your supporters? What is the size of the party today? Who do you see among your constituents?

Answer: The party was founded after the "January 25 revolution" of 2011. This is a common practice when, after revolutions, everyone tends to engage in politics legally, creating a political party, which, by the way, was very difficult during the time of Hosni Mubarak. It was very difficult to get a license. Thus, my supporters and I were sure that we should create a party. And we did, just like so many others at the time. Today, there are 103 political parties operating in Egypt. At the time of its creation, the Reform and Development Party had about 23,000 members across Egypt. As for the voters, we counted on ordinary Egyptians, those who believe in us, in a party that has an ideology, a program, a position on foreign policy issues, humanitarian and human rights aspects, social and economic development.

Thus, in the last parliament created under the Muslim Brotherhood, we had 9 seats. We hope to get more seats in the next Parliament. Everything will depend on how the parliamentary elections are held. I am sure that the competition will be very high. But I'm optimistic about the future. We are doing a lot today to attract voters. So let's wait and see what the outcome is.

Question: How can you assess the party's actions during the difficult period of the last 4 years? What is its role in the events of the "January 25 revolution "and"June 30 revolution"? How do you see the future of the party?

Answer: Since the January 25 revolution, all political parties have tried to work with people and be closer to them. But the political atmosphere at the time was unclear. The Islamists were more prepared and organized, and they certainly managed the situation. They made a deal with the Salafists to get a majority in parliament. The people then proceeded from the following: "Well, we gave a try to the secular government, which was represented by Mubarak, but it did not meet our expectations. Why not give the Islamists a chance to try now? Maybe they'll be better." And people voted for them. As a result, what happened on June 30, 2013, showed that they (the Muslim Brotherhood) suffered an even greater collapse. They were stupid, they failed to govern the country, they failed to rally the parties, the people, the army, the media, and the judicial system around them. In the end, they lost.

This two-year experiment was very difficult for Egypt and for the Egyptians. Now the Islamists are a thing of the past. We are preparing for the parliamentary election campaign, which I hope will take place by the end of this year. Now it is difficult to say how the elections will be held, as the competition, as I said, is high. But we are committed to strengthening our relationships and our contacts with our constituents. I hope that these efforts will bring good results in the upcoming elections.

On the other hand, many parties are now engaged in defining

and preparing their candidates. And our party is not far behind. We are implementing a broad program to organize several campaigns at once. But first of all, of course, we are waiting for the adoption and promulgation of the law on parliamentary elections. That hasn't happened yet. It is still being considered by the government. Let's wait and see how we proceed.

Question: You are actively involved in the campaign to create the legislative framework and conditions for holding parliamentary elections, and you are a member of the committee on amendments to election laws. How do these committees work? Who do they interact with in the country's leadership? What are the main obstacles to holding elections that you see?

Answer: The Election Commission was created and appointed by the head of state to draft the election law. Currently, in the absence of Parliament, the President is known to have legislative power along with executive power. Therefore, he appointed a special committee, which included professionals: law professors, representatives of administrative authorities. They have done a tremendous amount of work to develop a bill that would satisfy everyone.

But the problem is that the committee members ' hands are tied by the Constitution. Some articles of the Constitution grant privileges to a number of sectors of society so that they receive additional support, for example, women, young people, Christians and all minorities. These provisions create obstacles to the development of a law that fully complies with the Constitution.

The prepared draft law is not highly regarded by political parties. But in my opinion, this is the best thing that the government and this committee can do. It must be adopted, elections must be held, and a parliament must be elected. After that, legally elected members of Parliament will have the right to study and review this law and make changes to it that will become consensual for all parties and all members of Parliament. But the main thing now is to move forward and create a legislative body. Our country needs a parliament to have a balance of power and branches of government, to control the actions of the government. This is something I keep repeating to my colleagues from other parties: "Well, the election law is not accepted by everyone. Let's create a parliament then. We will make changes to this law that will satisfy everyone, and we will work."

Question: What should be the consensus between the Government and political forces for the election to be successful?

Answer: I believe that the consensus should be that we hold free and fair elections. Everyone, including the authorities, police, and judges, should hold free and fair elections. We have a central election commission that manages the elections. It must apply the rule of integrity and the rule of law.

What do we want? We seek free media access to monitor the elections. To show that we're not hiding anything. Anyone should be able to come and make sure that these are free and fair elections. This is what we want in our relations with the government. And the authorities will respect this requirement. I believe in it. I am sure that the authorities will not play games like they did in the Mubarak era. I am confident that they will hold free and open elections.

Question: You play an active role in Egyptian human rights work. How do you assess the situation in this area in Egypt? How has it been affected by the events of the last 4 years?

Answer: We live in an exceptional time, starting in 2011. There was a lot of violence. On both sides, first of all, the police and the state law enforcement apparatus, and, of course, the various spectrum of revolutionary forces. Violence was used on both sides. And it made life difficult for everyone. Don't forget about the media. Unfortunately, the media did not contribute to the unity of the people. Through various talk shows, etc., they sent "bad signals and messages" to the people.

I am sure that as soon as we create a parliament, we will need to develop a framework and legislate that all segments of society have equal rights and equal chances. There should be no discrimination. I'm talking about equality for all. We need to implement a lot of reforms to make sure that anyone who makes mistakes is held accountable. It doesn't matter if it's a cop or a politician,

or a representative of civil society. Everyone must respect the law, be guided by the national interests of the country and resist the threats that we have at our borders with Libya, Sudan, Gaza and Israel.

When freedom of expression, freedom of speech and freedom of assembly are available to everyone, then only people will respect the law. Thus, much needs to be done in the coming years. But we need a parliament to implement all these changes and relevant reforms.

Question: How do you see ways to improve the situation, what actions do you take both in the country and in relations with international human rights organizations?

Answer: I think we should maintain good relations with international human rights organizations, whether it is the Human Rights Council in Geneva or any other. We should not be afraid or shy. As long as we follow our obligations and the conventions that we have signed, we should not be afraid. Even if the reports of some organizations contain criticism of the government, we must take it professionally, not deny or hide it. If mistakes have been made, we must admit it and ask our friends from Europe, Russia, China and other countries to help us overcome them. We need to take appropriate measures in such cases. And in no case hide it. This won't help. Mir is a very small village now. Social media today easily find out what happened and where. Therefore, we must be open, we must not be afraid if we adhere to the law, and all foreign organizations respect our rules and regulations. I see it that way.

Question: You are the head of the non-governmental organization "As-Sadat Association". What are the goals and objectives of this organization? Who does it work with in Egypt and abroad?

Answer: As-Sadat Association focuses mainly on economic development. We are focused on fighting poverty, primarily in rural areas, by creating work opportunities and rural jobs for women and young people. In addition, we are looking for sponsors who would help create and equip hospitals, schools, youth and sports centers with the necessary equipment in order to actively involve young people in sports. This is one of the aspects of our business. Along with it, we also conduct social and political training so that young people understand what the constitution is, what politics is, how to be positive and successful. We also exert some political influence to make people feel part of society and participate in its activities.

We cooperate with various Egyptian structures and, of course, we are open to external cooperation. In Egypt, we are actively working together with the Social Development Fund, the Masr al-Kheir Foundation. These are all charitable organizations. Together, we implement a number of charity programs. We maintain relations with a number of European organizations - Norwegian, Swedish, German, and even Polish, as well as American ones. They support us through programs to help schools and hospitals. We also cooperate with the Japanese. So we are open to everyone.

In our work, we offer our foreign colleagues certain projects for joint implementation.-

alizatsii. Of course, in an official way, using the capabilities of diplomatic missions. If they agree with our proposals, then, in accordance with the established rules, since we are a registered organization and our activities are controlled by the authorities and the central audit committee of the government, we coordinate the project with the Ministry of Social Solidarity, which oversees the activities of NGOs in Egypt. As soon as we get approval, specific work begins. Of course, the Ministry of Social Solidarity consults with the national security agencies, etc. But as soon as they approve the project, we immediately start implementing it.

Until now, we have always received consent. Sometimes there were only temporary delays in the review process. This is the only problem we are facing. Otherwise, everything always goes smoothly.

Question: How closely do you work with the Government to address human rights issues within the Association?

Answer: As I have already said, we are always open to dialogue with the Government and relevant ministries. In the last Parliament, I was the chairman of the Human Rights Committee. Until now, I am a member of the Board of the All-Egyptian Youth Federation. From these positions, I am in constant contact with the authorities, we discuss pressing issues, etc.The dialogue does not stop. From these positions, if the government makes mistakes, behaves harshly, we can point out this, say that such actions violate civil rights.

Question: You are a member of the Egyptian International Affairs Council. For what purpose was it created? How important is its role in shaping the country's foreign policy?

Answer: The Council was established as a think tank that develops recommendations for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Most of its members are former ambassadors and ministers with extensive foreign policy experience. Therefore, its main task is to advise the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The Government of our country also listens to the opinion of this structure. It is not necessary that the authorities use everything, but they listen.

The Council hosts and holds meetings with representatives of various countries, including Russia, during which a wide range of issues are discussed, including crisis situations in the Middle East region and in the world as a whole. One of the most recent examples is the conference of representatives of the Syrian opposition in Cairo (June 8-9). We believe that this is a great opportunity for meetings and open discussions. I think that in the coming years his role will become more effective, and both the President and the Prime Minister will use his advice and recommendations. I am sure that the Council can do more work than it is doing now. Representatives of this structure are very experienced people, and their experience should be in demand.

Question: How do you assess Egypt's position in the Arab arena and in the international community? Do you think that the course taken by Cairo to abandon unilateral interaction with the West and diversify international relations will be justified?

Answer: I believe that Egypt should be open to both the East and the West. We must have a balanced approach to developing international cooperation. Europeans and Americans still have a very large influence, including in the economy and other areas. We certainly cannot ignore the fact that they are present here and have a strong position. But we must also take into account the fact that Russia is returning to the region, China is strengthening its position, so we must maintain balanced relations with all of them.

Over the past 4 years, we have begun to suspect that there was collusion between the Muslim Brotherhood and the West. It is necessary to understand this. If this is indeed the case, then we should be more careful and considerate. But this does not mean that we should stop all contacts. That would be a mistake. The whole world is interconnected today. I don't think we should cut ties with Iran. On the contrary, we should be open with him. Iran is an Islamic country, and we should be open to each other. The same goes for Turkey. But we must be very careful.

There is no doubt that our allies in the Persian Gulf are providing significant assistance to Egypt. And we need to make sure that they are stable and safe. We must play this role today in order to have as many friends and partners as possible. We need this help and support, as we face many challenges - economic, political, military, terrorist. Threats are everywhere. We must be open, we must not be afraid. I am sure that if I have to sit down at the negotiating table with the rioters, I will definitely do it. As for our interests and our rights, we should not be afraid of anything.

I am glad that we are now taking an open position in Africa, maintaining good relations, which will gradually become even stronger. In terms of foreign policy, Egypt is purposefully restoring its position to become, if you will, a center for promoting the interests of countries in Africa and the Middle East. This is very important for the country. I think that in the coming months, Egypt will be able to return to the positions that it lost during the years of revolutions, the rule of Morsi, etc. It will take some time, but the process has already begun, and this process is positive.

Question: How would you prioritize Egyptian foreign policy today and why?

Answer: All priorities are related to our interests. We are now facing many challenges, primarily economic ones. In this regard, we should give priority to economic development and economic relations in our foreign policy relations. I believe that our goal should be such areas in our foreign policy where we can get opportunities for economic growth, access to new markets, and attract foreign investment. That's our priority, in my opinion.

The old days when Nasser, Hussein, and Gaddafi were in power are over and will never return. And these leaders will no longer help us. Today, we can only benefit from a smart leadership, a smart leader who will live in the interests of the people, who will be able to establish and maintain mutually beneficial partnerships around the world, and who will be strong enough to create open trade and economic relations.

Question: How can you assess the nature of Egypt's relations with Russia today? What, in your opinion, is missing for their more active mutually beneficial development?

Answer: Relations with Russia are going through difficult times. I see that today Egypt has begun to rebuild relations with Russia based on trust and understanding. But, of course, it will take time and effort on both sides to restore trust, primarily in psychological terms. No one denies that the Russians strongly supported the Egyptians in the 50s and 60s of the last century. In 1973, we fought with Russian weapons. This is an indisputable fact. But President Sadat felt that at that time Egypt should have become closer to the West, since Russia was no longer so useful. Now we have many years of experience in relations with the West and, first of all, with the United States.

But I see that the Soviet Union and Russia are two different countries. A lot has changed in the last period. I don't think we will find a way to develop relations with Russia right now. The Egyptians have changed, and the Russians have changed too. When I go to Europe, I see that the Russians have changed. They enjoy life, live freely and happily, and have the opportunity to spend money. I never imagined that such a thing could happen. But things are changing.

We need to understand these changes in the character of Russians and use them to develop relations with them.

In my opinion, we need to open up to each other and be more flexible. We have a chance to win each other back. Russia is a great Power that is optimistic about the future. I believe that there is a certain chemistry between the two presidents - el-Sisi and Putin - that will definitely contribute to strengthening interstate ties. And we have already begun to open up opportunities in various fields - science, technology, weapons, and the economy. We are gradually restoring relations, and the current situation and political atmosphere are helping us.

I am sure that we have serious chances for full-scale development of relations. Russia today is not what it was yesterday. And this can help us. You know, the Egyptians still remember very well what the Americans will never be able to repeat with their money, etc. - the high-rise Aswan dam, which was built by Russian specialists. This is a real symbol. And I have repeatedly said this to the Americans: "You can invest 50 or even 70 billion dollars, but you will not achieve anything like this."

Question: What difficulties do you see on this path?

Answer: The Russians are very cautious today. They remember the experience of relations with Egypt in the 1970s. I don't think they will see us as brothers and partners today. But I think that gradually al-Sisi and Putin will be able to mitigate these feelings and doubts. We should not forget about the pressure exerted on businessmen and politicians by our Western partners, who repeat the following statements:: "Don't open up to the Russians, don't develop relations with them."

On the other hand, Russia's capabilities also seem limited. First of all, this concerns the financial support of joint projects. The approach now is simple: pay and take. Now there is nothing that was before, when barter transactions were actively used. This old system won't work anymore. There are certain challenges between politicians and businessmen that force them to be careful and move forward gradually. But even with these challenges, I believe that Egypt needs Russia, and Russia needs Egypt.

We are monitoring the situation with sanctions against Russia and the pressure exerted on it by the United States and European countries in connection with the events in Ukraine. That is, they are trying to drive Russia into a corner in this way. But President Putin's visit to Italy and the Vatican shows that this is virtually impossible.

So the world has changed. Politics, interests, as well as many other things, have changed. So we must always keep the door open. Gradually, we must bring our bilateral relations back to normal.

Russia is one of the main players on the world stage. And it will remain so. No one can ignore this fact. There are many strong players in the world, and Egypt needs to connect with them. But how to make the right approach, how to build the right relationships? However, our countries have an advantage: our presidents come from the same school, the same formation. So let's hope for the best and look ahead.

Question: Do you think that the development of relations between Cairo and

Does Moscow threaten Egyptian-American relations? How would you assess the role of the United States in recent events in Egypt?

Answer: I don't think that Egyptian-Russian relations are a threat. They may cause some tension, but there is no threat here. Egypt is still strongly connected to Europe and the United States and needs them as partners. This can be seen as a certain type of pressure on the US to be more attentive and flexible. This is a kind of message to the West that Egypt can go East. But I must say that Egyptian-American relations have always been like this.

Americans today have a negative image in Egypt. The people do not welcome them. This does not apply, of course, to the authorities. It is normal for the authorities to maintain relations with the United States, Israel, etc. But the people feel that the Americans want Egypt to collapse. The US was part of a conspiracy to divide Egypt, to cut off Sinai from it and hand it over to the Palestinians, making various deals behind our backs.

Therefore, they will have to work hard to send a positive message to the Egyptian people that they are ready to understand the Egyptians and have real intentions to help. Now that they have appointed a new ambassador in Cairo, they are being cautious, trying to make fewer public statements compared to how they did it before. Gradually, they are trying to restore contacts with the government, the people, human rights organizations, and trade unions. They are well aware that they have lost their face. Whether their efforts will succeed, I do not know. Everything will depend on their position: whether it is in support of the Egyptian vision, Egyptian interests both inside and outside the country.

Question: How would you describe Egypt's relations with the European Union? What practical assistance do you think Europe could provide to Egypt's development?

Answer: I believe that Europe can play a big role in Egypt. If, for example, the United States suddenly withdraws from solving the crises in the Middle East, then the Europeans could be a good replacement for them. Europe and Egypt are neighbors in the Mediterranean, and the Europeans could do a lot in their mutual interests. But they should have a clear and clear policy. The Europeans have not yet demonstrated that they want to become a true partner for Egypt. They try to help us through some programs.

However, I believe that in the near future, perhaps by the end of this year, the Europeans will create a new strategy for relations between the northern and southern Mediterranean. We'll see. Maybe they will try to become a real partner again and play a bigger role than they do now. We will have to wait to see how their neighborhood policy will be implemented.

Question: Egypt has found itself at the center of a cycle of events in the Middle East and North Africa related to the destruction of regimes, instability, and the spread of the threat of terrorism. The country itself is fighting terrorism on its territory. Who do you think is responsible for the collapse of the usual political order in the Arab world? In your opinion, was this only the result of an internal social explosion, or were the conditions artificially created and controlled by external forces?

Answer: I believe that everything that happened in Libya, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and Tunisia all started outside our region. I do not deny that the leaders in these countries pursued a tough policy towards their peoples, they were dictators, they represented authoritarian regimes. On the other hand, they allowed the destruction of socio-economic systems in their countries. Of course, the population suffered from this and was very tired.

But what happened happened with the direct external support of those political activists, revolutionary forces, whom foreign emissaries could call for democracy, for greater freedoms through various civil programs. It all started from the outside. If people in their country are happy and satisfied with their lives, they will not succumb to any external pressure. But the problem is that the population was extremely tired of the conditions, so the promotion of various revolutionary theses from outside prompted them to act against such a life.

Question: The name of your uncle Anwar Sadat is well known all over the world. The period of his administration in Egypt is even studied separately in Russian universities. At the same time, even experts in Egypt don't know much about you, your family, your life, or your political career. Could you introduce our readers to the informal side of your life?

A: Since the departure of Anwar Sadat, no one in our family has been involved in politics. Generally. We entered politics only in 2004, 30 years after his death. One of his demands was that while he is in power, no one from the family should be involved in politics. Because otherwise it would mean that if a person is from a family, then he is a person close to him, can have privileges.

It was only in 2004 that my brother and I (Iffat Sadat) entered politics and put forward our candidacies for the parliamentary elections. We were both successfully elected members of Parliament in 2005. From that moment, our political career began.

We were not, let's say, on good terms with Mubarak. We were in opposition to him, because we did not like the approaches of the then authorities in relations with business and businessmen, their influence on the parliament, and the preparation of Mubarak's son for the succession.-

in the hands of the authorities. Of course, this position did not go unnoticed. My brother spent a year in a military prison. In 2007, I was expelled from the Parliament and deprived of my parliamentary mandate. So we had a difficult relationship with Mubarak and his people.

But we survived. After the "January 25 Revolution", my brother and I formed our own parties (the Reform and Development Party and Sadat's Democratic Party) and became an integral part of the Egyptian political scene.

As for the rest of the family, only my brother and I are politicians. Other family members are not involved in politics. They live the normal life of their families. There are doctors, engineers, and military personnel. They are not public people. And we are all content to be a simple part of our society.

Q: What are your hobbies? How do you like to spend your free time?

Answer: When I have free time, I prefer to spend it with my family, with my grandson. I usually go to my village Mit Abul Qom. This is the birthplace of President Sadat. There is his house, where we have organized a small museum of him, which contains his personal belongings, numerous photographs, including with Brezhnev, Kosygin, and Khrushchev during the opening of the Aswan dam. I try to go to Mit Abul Qom every week and spend the whole day there. This is also my constituency. When I run for parliament, this area becomes my starting point. It is located a hundred kilometers from Cairo in the Nile Delta.

I try to keep up to date with current events and take part in various international conferences and forums organized in European and other countries. Of course, I am actively involved in the Egyptian domestic political life. I regularly monitor political developments in the world through such TV channels as the BBC, CNN, and the Russian Arabic - language channel Rusia al-Yaum. I must honestly say that this is a very good channel. I really like it.

Unfortunately, I don't have enough time for sports. Maybe when I retire from active activities, I will take up some kind of sports. But not now.

Question: Have you ever been to the USSR or Russia before? What are your impressions? Would you like to visit Russia again? What cities? Why them?

Answer: I have never been to the Soviet Union or Russia. I also haven't been to China or Japan. I've never even been to the United Arab Emirates or Kuwait. But I would certainly like to visit Russia, especially Moscow. I've heard a lot from my friends about Russia and Russian cities. I have the opportunity to observe Russian citizens at Egyptian resorts in Hurghada and Sharm el-Sheikh.

But I am sure that one day I will be able to get acquainted with Russia, its history and culture.

Question: In conclusion, what would you wish to the peoples of Egypt and Russia? What parting words would the leaders of the two countries give to strengthen relations?

Answer: In my opinion, the most important thing for the leaders of the two countries is to build bridges of trust. This will be reflected in the relations of both nations. After years of top-down relations, I am confident that the peoples of our countries will successfully cope with all the difficulties, including the problems of terrorism, which is spread by fanatical extremists.

Egyptians should see the real Russia of today. Old generations pass on their impressions to young people, still believing that Russia is still the same as it was in the 40s and 60s of the last century. But it's completely different. This is an open society. I would like to see more Egyptian tourists visit Russia.

I am sure that such a time will come. Because the momentum given by Presidents Putin and al-Sisi will make many people think that it is necessary to visit and see how another country and its people live. In particular, you need to see the beautiful Olympic city of Sochi, which makes an indelible impression even through the TV screen. It is quite possible that for the upcoming 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia, and I hope that Sochi will become one of the cities where matches will be held, Egyptians will be able to go and see everything with their own eyes.

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